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  • in reply to: North Africa – To bestow or not to bestow… #13490
    felix
    Member

    I would say "yes" to the 4 assertions.

    The "médaille d’Afrique du Nord" was at first just a diploma (title), the "titre de la reconnaissance de la Nation" institued on 21 december 1974 for those who couldn’t receive the "croix du combattant", so it’s more a service medal rather than just a commemorative medal. This title (and now medal) give some right to a pension like the "croix du combattant". It’s only a military medal.

    For the OAS, just remember it was an illegal terrorist organisation.

    in reply to: War Cross / Croix de Guerre – 1939-1940 (Vichy). #13482
    felix
    Member

    All of these variants, official or not were abolished (near rescinded) by a decree of 7 January 1944. The 1939-1940 CDG was replaced by the 1939-1945 CDG with proper red and green ribbon. Some recipients of Vichy CDGs bearing other dates also received the 1939-1945 version BUT each case was carefully studied by a special commission. For example, French soldiers serving with the Wehrmacht on the Russian Front did not get a replacement CDG (many were shot) but those serving in other theaters under French command usually did.

    The decree of 7 january 1944 reintroduced the "1939" cross, the "1939-1945" one is unofficial.

    The french soldiers who fought in the Wehrmacht on the eastern front (LVF) never received the "1939-1940" war cross but a special war cross specific to this unit. This cross was unofficial.

    in reply to: War Cross / Croix de Guerre – 1939-1940 (Vichy). #13481
    felix
    Member

    Bestowed to soldiers whose nominations had not yet gone through the entire process by the time of the armistice. BTW, the award citations were greatly watered down so as not to offend the occupation forces.

    During the last weeks of the battle of France (june 1940), a lot of soldiers received the war cross just because they were on the front, sometimes entire units received it. The Vichy’s governement chose to abolished the "1939" war cross and to re-examine all the citations to reward those who really deserve it. So the "1939-1940" one was for all soldiers who already received the cross.

    felix
    Member

    Since the reinstitution of the Republic in France in 1870, three differents types of the Legion of honor are known. They are named following the Republic during which they were created even if the dates don’t totally coincide.

    : From november 8 1870 until February 27 1951.
    : Head of the goddess Ceres surrounded by a blue circle with the inscription "REPUBLIQUE FRANCAISE" (french republic) over the date 1870.
    : A flag crossed with a standard surrounded by a blue circle with the inscription "HONNEUR ET PATRIE" (honor and fatherland) over two crossed laurel branches.

    : From February 27 1951 until November 28 1962.
    : Same as the former type but the 1870 date was withdrawn for a star. In the french mind, 1870 was the date of a defeat and not of the reinstitution of the republic. The same modification was made on the Military medal.
    : Same as the former type

    : Since November 28 1962
    : Same as the former type.
    : Same as the former type but the laurel branches were withdrawn for the inscription "29 FLOREAL AN X" (May 19 1802 in the french republican calendar), date of the institution of the order.

    Some IVth and Vth republics legions of honor are known with three stars instead of one on the averse, that’s just a maker fantasy and means nothing.
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    felix
    Member

    I couldn’t find a date of production for the Legion of Honour, but it’s interesting to notice that in Belgium, the order of Léopold was founded on 11 july 1832 and the first award made to a french pionneer on 8 or 9 december 1832 during the siege of Antwerp. Before the beginning of this siege in november 1832, there was no military operation in Belgium, it’s certainly possible that the first awards were produced before that date and only awarded at this occasion. On other point , still in Belgium, it was decided to create a Star of Honour on 14 January 1831, but as this time belgian opinion was egalitarian and the idea was totally given up in may 1831, but some stars were made.

    (from : 175 ans de l’Ordre de Léopold et les Ordres Nationaux Belges, by Commandant Pat Van Hoorebeke, Musée Royal de l’Armée à Bruxelles, ISBN 2870510403, 2007)

    It’s certainly possible in France that the order was quickly made as it was not a new award but only a modification of an existing award. In my opinion the first crosses were certainly produced before the end of 1870 or the beginning of 1871.

    felix
    Member

    There is no date of production, but the first medals were certainly made quickly after the date of the edict. Maybe there is something in the Paris mint files but someone needs to dig.

    felix
    Member

    That’s the date of the edict, but as France was in war with a new government, new medals were certainly quickly made. I can’t find a date of production but I will ask.

    felix
    Member

    From 8 november 1870 until 27 february 1951.

    felix
    Member

    Christophe,

    Yes, the first woman was Angélique Duchemin. For the nobility an approbation was needed "afin d’obtenir à cet effet nos lettres-patentes" and apparently just a few asked for it, but I don’t have any figure.

    felix
    Member

    Christophe,

    Yes, the first woman was Angélique Duchemin. For the nobility an approbation was needed "afin d’obtenir à cet effet nos lettres-patentes" and apparently just a few asked for it, but I don’t have any figure.

    felix
    Member

    On 1st March 1808, Napoleon I re-established nobility in France (Noblesse d’Empire), and the recipients of the Légion d’Honneur became Knights.

    Napoleon III is the first having decorated women, and artists (writers, authors, theatre players…).

    If you don’t mind, some explanations. Recipients of the Legion of honour were called knights but became member of the new nobility only if they ask for it and just a few did it.

    Napoleon III was not the first to give the Legion of Honour to artists. For example, Goethe received it in 1808 and Victor Hugo in 1825 (he was only 23 years old…). Remember that the first Grand chancelor of the order, Lacépède, was a scientist. On 6 april 1814, 30000 members of the LH were soldiers and only 1500 civilians, but in 1815, when Napoléon came back to the power, he chose to honour more civilians.

    felix
    Member

    On 1st March 1808, Napoleon I re-established nobility in France (Noblesse d’Empire), and the recipients of the Légion d’Honneur became Knights.

    Napoleon III is the first having decorated women, and artists (writers, authors, theatre players…).

    If you don’t mind, some explanations. Recipients of the Legion of honour were called knights but became member of the new nobility only if they ask for it and just a few did it.

    Napoleon III was not the first to give the Legion of Honour to artists. For example, Goethe received it in 1808 and Victor Hugo in 1825 (he was only 23 years old…). Remember that the first Grand chancelor of the order, Lacépède, was a scientist. On 6 april 1814, 30000 members of the LH were soldiers and only 1500 civilians, but in 1815, when Napoléon came back to the power, he chose to honour more civilians.

    felix
    Member

    A lot of officers were not aristocrats and it was possible without money and birth to became officer, they were known as "officier de fortune" but I agree it was an exeption. St Louis order was awarded for bravery or long service (28 years for a junior officer). It was possible for a NCO to be promoted officer, most of them at the end of their career. That was the first order that could be awarded to non-aristocrats. St Louis order was restricted to catholics, but non catholics were awarded Military merit order.

    Of course St Louis order was not a merit order as we know them today but it was something really new for the time and an inspiration for Napoleon when he created the Legion of Honour.

    felix
    Member

    A lot of officers were not aristocrats and it was possible without money and birth to became officer, they were known as "officier de fortune" but I agree it was an exeption. St Louis order was awarded for bravery or long service (28 years for a junior officer). It was possible for a NCO to be promoted officer, most of them at the end of their career. That was the first order that could be awarded to non-aristocrats. St Louis order was restricted to catholics, but non catholics were awarded Military merit order.

    Of course St Louis order was not a merit order as we know them today but it was something really new for the time and an inspiration for Napoleon when he created the Legion of Honour.

    felix
    Member

    Since the beginning the Legion of honour is a military AND civilian order for outstanding achievement. The problem is : what is an outstanding achievement ?

    It’s not the first order not based only on birth, the order of Saint Louis was for everybody, aristocrat or not, but only for officers.

Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 154 total)