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July 2, 2011 at 7:41 am #13450kjohnMember
Yes, it is a 3rd Republic period award (1870-1951). Button on ribbon is privately attached, black line is not official either but occasionally added to display of a deceased recipient’s award.
To complete your document you’d need a 2nd Empire type (1852-1870). Let me know if you need one, I have few available.
KrisJuly 2, 2011 at 7:42 am #13451Henk-WillemParticipant
Good morning Kris,
Thank you for your answer. Does the black line mean that the award was posthumously awarded, or is it just added after the person has died?
The button usually indicates that is is awarded to a civilian?
I’m still looking for one. I am looking for a one with its original box. I’ve allready looked on liverpoolmedals and saw the prices for the 2rd empire version. I must wait to buy one, because I want to go to the international meeting in Geneva.July 2, 2011 at 7:42 am #13452kjohnMember
Black stripe was not an official device so it’s meaning cannot be stated for certain.
Button on ribbon is simply a personal arrangement of attachment. It also cannot be used to designate civilian/military recipient. Many older examples (1st Empire/Restoration of Monarchy) used a button-hole type ribbon arrangement to help with LOH attachment, this was occasionally used on neck badges of various States etc. Again, this was simply a recipient’s choice.
Cases for 2nd Empire can be difficult to find and can cost as much as the badge itself. The most common example is in dark green-grayish box with full image of the insignia gold embossed on the lid (note that Officer case would actually show a rosette on the ribbon in comparison with Knight where no rosette is shown). This goes for the Official maker of the LOH during 2nd Empire- Quizille Lemoine. There were many other makers and cases range in color from red to white but those are not as common.
Unfortunately I do not have any cases for sale. Good luck with your search.
KrisJuly 2, 2011 at 7:43 am #13453Henk-WillemParticipant
Good evening Kris,
thank you for this useful information.July 2, 2011 at 7:47 am #13454Frank DutilParticipant
Below is a poem (hence the odd arrangement) sent to me by a friend in France who’s also an ODM collector. It’s on a large very nice parchment, I translated it for this membership. I know of at least one member here who will rejoice in its reading.July 2, 2011 at 7:48 am #13455
Nice poem. Please post the French text as well…
It’s true that I have always heard people awarded the French Legion d’Honneur say : "Elle ne se demande pas. Elle ne se porte pas." (You don’t ask for it. You don’t wear it).
Ch.July 2, 2011 at 7:49 am #13456paul woodParticipant
Very nice. Yes it is a shame that the Legion d’Honneur has become like the Order of the British Empire (O.B.E.=other bugger’s efforts).
PaulJuly 2, 2011 at 7:49 am #13457
But hadn’t it always been both civil and military? And, as the first "revolutionary" award, it was based on achievement not birth, a very novel idea.
Not to say that the contemporary standards haven’t been badly distorted . . . .
The quote I’d always heard was that you’d get the LdH about the same time you got your prostate operation.
I always regret not getting a 1st Empire LdH (back when they were cheap), bad shape, tattered ribbon, with a contemporay note by an English officer documenting that it had been found on the field after the Battle of Waterloo.July 2, 2011 at 7:50 am #13458
What a superb piece it would be…
Ch.July 2, 2011 at 7:51 am #13459
Yes, almost as nice (given my interests) as a battered 2nd Punjab War medal in the same sale with an attached note (by a member of the family of the previous British officer — quite a bunch of magpies they seem to have been) stating that he had taken it from the recipient just before "blowing him from the guns" at Allahabad late in 1857 as a "mutineer".
Rather grisly history, but history none the less.July 2, 2011 at 7:51 am #13460
History is made of so many things…
Ch.July 2, 2011 at 7:52 am #13461felixMember
Since the beginning the Legion of honour is a military AND civilian order for outstanding achievement. The problem is : what is an outstanding achievement ?
It’s not the first order not based only on birth, the order of Saint Louis was for everybody, aristocrat or not, but only for officers.July 2, 2011 at 7:52 am #13462
And could anyone be an officer? Really??July 2, 2011 at 7:53 am #13463felixMember
A lot of officers were not aristocrats and it was possible without money and birth to became officer, they were known as "officier de fortune" but I agree it was an exeption. St Louis order was awarded for bravery or long service (28 years for a junior officer). It was possible for a NCO to be promoted officer, most of them at the end of their career. That was the first order that could be awarded to non-aristocrats. St Louis order was restricted to catholics, but non catholics were awarded Military merit order.
Of course St Louis order was not a merit order as we know them today but it was something really new for the time and an inspiration for Napoleon when he created the Legion of Honour.July 2, 2011 at 7:54 am #13464
True. Ordre Royal et Militaire de Saint-Louis + Liberté, égalité, fraternité = Légion d’honneur. At least as far as the ribbon was concerned. The underlying ideas and ideals were, of course, quite different.
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