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April 2, 2012 at 2:47 am #12330
I am writing with a bit of an odd request. A friend of mine, Arthur Collinsworth, has asked that I have his medals mounted for him through a company that I use. He has the distinct honor of being one of the only Americans to have recieved both the Finnish Order of the White Rose (Knight) and the Order of the Finnish Lion (Commander) for his chritable work. In addition, and this is where the hiccup in the mounting comes, he is a Commander of the Order of St. John (US/UK Division). How should his minature medals be mounted? I know that the Commander of the Finnish Lion proceeds the White Rose (Knight) per Finnish Regs, but where in tarnation does his St. John’s Order go in the order of precedence? Please advise, thank you for your assistance.
ErichApril 2, 2012 at 9:21 am #15714meganModerator
As your friend is an American, I would hazard a guess that as his Commander of St John is the US/UK branch, that ought to receive precedence over his Finnish awards.
Hence: Cdr St John/Cdr Finnish Lion/Knight Finnish Rose…April 2, 2012 at 12:23 pm #15715jb floydModerator
In US protocol, foreign awards are worn after all US awards and in the order earned. If two or more awards are from the same nation, they are worn in the precedence of the awarding nation. In this case, it appears that the two Finnish awards precede the Order of St. John.April 2, 2012 at 9:53 pm #15716Frank DutilParticipant
Commander of the Order of St John is a neck Order… So it wouldn’t be mounted at all… Unless you’re in error and mean officer of the Order?
Or are we just talking about a ribbon bar?April 3, 2012 at 4:47 am #15717
Thank you for your assistance. These are not full size medals, these are his minitures that he would like mounted. He says that his Order of St. John is a part of the American Division, which falls under the control of the British Order of St. John. It is not an American award, but a British one. He says it is a Commander class, which according to him, in the Order of St. John is Commander is lower ranking than Knight in the order of precendence. So what I need to figure out is if the Order of St. John should go before or after the two Finish Orders or split them. I know nothing about the Order of St. John, other than some basics. Again, thank you for your input.
ErichApril 3, 2012 at 10:19 am #15718arthur radburnMember
Surely the principle pointed out by Jeff Floyd is the best one to follow : foreign awards rank in order of date conferred, and multiple awards from the same country are grouped together.
The answer to the question would then be to find out the date on which he was granted the UK order, and the date on which he was awarded the first of the two Finnish orders. That would determine whether the UK precedes Finland or vice versa in his particular case. Either way, the two Finnish orders should be kept together, and not have the C St J in between them.April 3, 2012 at 1:31 pm #15719meganModerator
You need to remember that in the Finnish orders, Knight is the 5th class, commander being the 3rd class.
In the UK version of the OStJ, commander is again the 3rd class, but what they call a ‘Knight’ ranks higher, being the 2nd class (the first class is called ‘Bailiff’ and is equivalent to a Knight Grand Cross…).
Just to muddy the waters a bitApril 3, 2012 at 2:55 pm #15721Frank DutilParticipant
The Order of St John uses its own terminology for its awards, this is the same throughout the British Commonwealth, they are:
-Serving Brother (or Sister)
-Knight (Dame) of Justice or Knight (Dame) of Grace
-Bailif (Dame) Grand Cross
There is no miniature for a Commander’s neck badge, it is always worn in full. The only alternative, which many people do, is to wear the badge of Officer of the Order in their miniature set.April 4, 2012 at 4:32 am #15726
OK, thank you. I will call him tomorrow and ask him when he recieved the OSJ versus the Finish Decorations. I hope to get this resolved sooner than later, as he will be leaving for 6 months in May and I would like to get this for him before he leaves.
Thank you again,
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